Stirk NPCs [Infragris]

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Saint_Jiub
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Post by Saint_Jiub »

http://project-tamriel.tumblr.com/post/ ... epting-new

I took some screenshots of NPCs in Stirk and posted them to the Tumblr blog. I'm trying to drum up interest again now that we're getting within sight of a new release.

You've really done a phenomenal job, Infragris, I wasn't even aware there was a plugin available for me to test :P It was such a thrill to walk around the island today and see it brought to life after so many years of running around by myself :)

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Thank you! It's good to hear that the dialogue reads well. I'm afraid dialogue slowdowns are unavoidable at this point: mods like LGNPC and TR have similar issues due to the sheer amount of new records. Another one of those things that will necessitate the use of OpenMW in the future.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

When testing leons quest, I kept coming across things that felt like they should be improved upon:

- Some kind of way to travel between the lighthouse and the harbour without swimming to the lighthouse each time. In my mind, it would be ideal, if one of the fishers offered you to bring you to the lighthouse and would wait for you to return with you to the island afterwards.
- The trader in the weapon shop sells misc items and food.
- i noticed a number of traders/publicans that didn't have any gold. There are also these two imperials from the imperial city in one of the taverns, one of which offers trading service (seems a bit weird).
- The docks should be made a bit emptier, so it is less difficult to walk there.
- Maybe we should reduce the amount of creatures (fish) around the harbor, to address the bad performance. Maybe remove a couple of seagulls, too?

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Traders have not yet been set up completely. Are the two Imperials from the archeological society? One of them is supposed to be a bookseller. I'll address the other issues.

The docks are all cluttered with collisionboxes - what's that about? If these meshes have collision issues, they should be reworked.

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Saint_Jiub
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Post by Saint_Jiub »

Ohhhhhh, is that why the framerate at the docks always drops to, like, Powerpoint slideshow level for me? Anybody else notice this?

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Possibly, though there are also a lot of creature spawnpoints around there. A bit too many, even.

Looking at these dock pieces, I'm kind of questioning their existence. We're not using this tileset in Anvil,as far as I know. It's a little odd to see a backwater like Stirk with its own unique stone docks, and it sets a bad precedent (we can't go around making a brand new tileset for each and every town, the way we have been doing). Since these pieces need to be reworked anyway, I'm tempted to scrap them and put wooden docks in. Thoughts?

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Saint_Jiub
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Post by Saint_Jiub »

I'd hate to see them go altogether...... Could they be repurposed for Anvil, perhaps? Right now, IIRC, it just uses big white stone blocks, and its docks are a little lacking in character.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

I would actually hate to see the wooden docks being used instead of these and I'd rather see them reused in Anvil or one of the fisher towns, if it must be. These vanilla docks are starting to make everything feel the same, somehow. Not sure if it accounts for something, but Ravenrock in vanilla even had its own dock models.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

I think the retexture and the general change of scenery would be enough to dispel any similarities with Vvardenfell docks. There's also the matter of usability: the wooden docks have corners, 4-ways, stairs, etc. and they are slightly wider and easier to navigate. The Stirk dock set literally consists out of only two pieces. Having a stone dockset next to the wooden one would be a valuable addition, but imo two things would have to happen: the set would have to be expanded with more flexible pieces, and it should be retextured so we can use it across different cities (like in Anil, where the docks are quite underdeveloped).

What if I do it half-and-half? The stone docks remain along the shoreline and with one pier on the far left, while the rest of the "minor" docks are replaced with wooden walkways. This sort of mixes it up, keeps the unique architecture, but also makes the docks more varied, less clean and more functional. It would make sense for the local fishing boats to use a cheaper-looking, wooden dock.

About the lighthouse access: looking at it, it's kind of too close by to make a new travel line worth the effort. Are there any objections to making a wooden walkway to the lighthouse isle? This would close the bay along the south side, but the east side would remain accesible to ships (southern end is very shallow water anyway). I think maybe I can rig up a drawbridge-looking thing if need be.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

Logically it would make the most sense that the transport between Stirk and the lighthouse island happened via a rowboat. So how about removing that longboat next to the lighthouse and adding a rowboat both to the lighhouse and the harbor? The practical tansport should either be a loaddoor mechanism or a friendly fisher offering you to ship between these two.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Okay, a loaddoor-boat it is.

Quick mockup of my Stirk docks proposal:
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Stirk Docks Proposal.jpg

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

I'd be fine with these changes, although, I don't see anything wrong about just keeping the current docks, myself. But oh well, I'm a very opinionated one :D

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Post by Scamp »

I guess that would be fine, though you will have to find a way to make a decent transition where the different dock styles meet, which I believe isn't quite that easy. Bleeding the pieces looks unnatural and should rather be avoided.

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Post by Luxray »

I'd throw my weight behind keeping the existing ones. The mockup looks a bit 'moddy' to me and a lot less 'Imperial' than the stone dock.
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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

The mockup was literally done in a minute, of course it doesn't look perfect. The transition should be no problem if handled seriously. If people are opposed to using wooden docks then I will leave it as it is, but in that case I hope someone is willing to make these dock pieces actually functional.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Small update. More merchants are now functional , and I the rent door thing should be fixed. Barrow names and Saint_Jiub's changes to the upper class homes implemented.

I've reworked the basic dock piece, and scaled it up to about the size of the imp_dock pieces (the TR added ones, not the larger vanilla stuff). This should make them navigable and function as a tileset (the old pieces did not snap). The old configuration of the docks is now not possible without additional models (corners, T-pieces etc.). Not really a problem, since the changed profile of the flat ships required some reworking in this area anyway. I have little experience with making tilesets, but I'll see if I can make the basics for the stone docks. I'll still likely mix in some wooden docks, if only because it will make this a lot easier.

Does anyone know a good guideline for npc AI settings? Alarm and that sort of thing.
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worsas
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Post by worsas »

http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:NPCs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe this page will be useful. but in case of doubt, you can still look for vanilla npcs and copy their AI -settings?

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berry
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Post by berry »

There is also some talk about it in MSFD, pages 122-133, but that's all I know about. I also found some more value tables here.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

A possible part of the main questline. Ugenring was the previous Prefect of Stirk, who retired after a nervous breakdown caused by, among other things, Victus Pilious. He's convinced that Pilious is spying on him and stealing in official correspondence. The idea is that the player would have to talk to Ugenring somewhere along the questline, figure out if he knows anything useful. Actually, retrieiving Ugenring's "correspondence" could make a nice subquest, I hadn't even thought about that.

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TerrifyingDaedricFoe
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Post by TerrifyingDaedricFoe »

I wouldn't want Stirk being overcrowded with quests. There's four (?) I think at the moment, plus all the MQ quests. Might be best using the idea somewhere else.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

The Helvor crypt plays a part in the main quest: there's a secret passage to the Ayleid ruin used to supply the pirates. The quest could play out this way, if not, we should keep this idea for the Anvil graveyard.

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berry
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Post by berry »

Now, that you mention it...

[hsimg=]http://i.imgur.com/PIAOczF.png[/hsimg]

I assumed the fault lies on the site of my claim plugin, as it's rather dirty atm, but now I don't know.

I'm still using previous Stirk esp btw and this guy has a Reach npc script assigned.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

There are some erased/corrupted dialogue conditions that I have yet to fix.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Update: Stirk dialogue greetings are now correctly filtered, should no longer appear outside of the island itself.

Is anyone here well-versed in dialogue conditions? Wondering what the best usage of Local or Not Local flags is for the PC_NoLore condition.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

haha I didn't actually post the update file whoops
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berry
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Post by berry »

Infragris wrote:haha I didn't actually post the update file whoops
Thanks :P I got to thinking you didn't mean to, and you're just telling us about the progress.

I can indeed confirm the long-aged Stirk's occupation of the Reach is over now with this update. However, I'm still getting that error with the rent door.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Could you open up three claims for the Stirk galleons with the new interior pieces? I'm afraid the ones you already made won't really fit (though you could rework them for Anvil).
  • The Snarleyohwl: easternmost ship, on the lone pier. This ship is crewed entirely by Khajiit (Captain S'Dato, Asharib and Jo'Ra Ra). S'Dato usually sails Topal bay, but is out here on a commission for Victus Pilious. Naturally, he's smuggling skooma and moon sugar: there should be a secret room somewhere aboard. Could play a role in the main quest.
  • The Blessed of Stendarr: middle ship. Owned by Restia Nigilius, an Imperial captain. This is basically a fishing trawler, bringing barrels of dried slaughterfish and Abecean Longfin to Anvil harbor. This will be the ship that transports the player to the mainland. Should look lower-class, dirty, lots of fish statics an containers strung up.
  • The Magnificent: the westernmost ship, nearest to the census & excise. this ship is owned by the Redguard captain Jafan, a sort of braggart/scoundrel type who sails a lot on the Abecean Sea. His ship should have opulent captain's quarter, but be rather shabby otherwise. He does contract work for the East Empire Company. Maybe a shipment of imperial armor and weaponry in the hold.
There are also at least three shipwrecks scattered across the ocean floor that I was not aware of. One of these could be the setting for the shipwreck quest, the others can probably do without interiors, as they are very hard to find. There's also the pirate ship to the north, but this can be filled out once we know how it fits in the main quest.

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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Update: changes to the docks and galleon pieces have been implemented. Might still be a couple of floaters around the docks. The rent door script issue should be fixed now, although there now appears to be a problem with dialogue sorting (dialogue entries are sorted correctly in the overview, but appear incorrect when filtered for a specific publican npc). Bed rental scripts for the Sload's Tale are also in, and you can ask the Verus couple at the Sload's Inn about Stirk's history.
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Infragris
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Post by Infragris »

Couple of things:
  • I'm not a big fan of the current chapel of Kynareth. The whole setup with the pews and the candles is way too christian-ish. With permission, I would like to revamp the main worship hall slightly to give it a more unique, slightly greco-roman vibe more in line with Kynareth's character: remove the pews, put some planters and a small pool in there, things like that. I would also like to rename the place to "Temple of Kynareth' instead of "Chapel".
  • I would also like to slightly embellish the outside of the Town Hall and the manor of the Helvors to signify to players that these are important buildings. Currently, it is difficult to see that Town Hall is not just a random private building. Remove the barrels and junk and put some planters and banners there, kind of.
  • Lastly, I've been going over the ocean cells and noticed that fish spawn points often appear in groups of seven or even fourteen. While I understand that these are meant to create schools of fish, I fear that this will negatively impact performance, especially with the masses of kelp in those same places. I'd like to decrease the number of simultaneous spawns, at least close to the harbor and other resource-intensive places. To offset this, we can edit the lvld lists to there's less of a chance to spawn none.

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worsas
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Post by worsas »

Lastly, I've been going over the ocean cells and noticed that fish spawn points often appear in groups of seven or even fourteen. While I understand that these are meant to create schools of fish, I fear that this will negatively impact performance, especially with the masses of kelp in those same places. I'd like to decrease the number of simultaneous spawns, at least close to the harbor and other resource-intensive places. To offset this, we can edit the lvld lists to there's less of a chance to spawn none.
Can you maybe test first, if there are really performance issues in those cells? You easily underestimate the scale within the cs and the fish are already hard to find as it is right now. I have strong doubts that there will be anywhere performance issues even coming close to the ones on Stirk. But if Stirk is acceptable, why aren't those seafloor cells?

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